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Hola. I'm Claudia Romo Edelman and I'm Cynthia Kleinbaum Milner.
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Welcome to the podcast A La Latina,
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the playbook to succeed being your authentic self.
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Today, we have a special guest,
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Ia Musa, she's the head of International Banking and Lending at
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Morgan Stanley. In this episode,
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you will learn three things.
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First of all, how Eliana teaches how to get comfortable talking
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about money as a way to pave the way to financial independence
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Number two, how leaning on your Latini that can make
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you a master negotiator and influencer.
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And number three, don't be afraid of putting yourself in a
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position of power as a way to succeed these and more in
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this episode of A La Latina Ola.
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Welcome to the podcast A La Latina,
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the playbook to succeed being your authentic self today.
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An incredible guest, Ia Musa Iana is the managing director,
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head of International Banking and Lending at Morgan Stanley.
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She sits on the Girl Scouts National Board on the corporate advisory
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board of the Association of Latino Professionals for America on the Florida
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International University Honors College and the Cuban Heritage Collection of the University
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of Miami. She has also been recognized by multiple publications including
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the list of top 50 most powerful Latinas in the US.
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Welcome, Leana Musa.
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Claudia. Nice to be here,
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Cynthia. I'm super excited about today's conversation.
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We are really excited to get deeper into your life,
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your career, the tips and tricks that you have so that
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Latinas can succeed in the corporate environment being their authentic self.
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And I would like to start with your journey.
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How did you start being the incredible trail blazer that you are
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in the financial world.
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who was an influence.
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I've heard stories about your dad being such an influence on your
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life. So tell us about it.
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Sure. Well, my parents were an incredible influence early
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in life for we had two different paths that eventually converged.
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I was born in Cuba and my parents made the difficult
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decisions to, for my mom to go ahead and we left
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to Spain ended up in the U SI was about three
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years old and my father stayed behind and the idea was that
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we would all get reunited.
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Unfortunately, my father ended up serving a prison term
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He was a political prisoner and I didn't get to
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reconnect with him until I was 17.
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And so really that those 1st 17 years of my life were
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shaped by my mother,
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I grew up with a single mother of three Children,
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getting to a country not knowing a language,
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not having anybody else from our family and starting over.
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So the first lesson,
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and I remember at a very young age was,
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you know, resiliency and this whole notion of having to pull
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yourself back up and start over.
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And, but doing it in a way that you innovate
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and you create. So I I'm an optimist because I
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saw my mother of three plowed through have multiple jobs and yet
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she was extremely creative and very innovative and that stuck with me
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and it carries through in everything that I do today.
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And so the, I always say my childhood was
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a lesson in R and R not relax and recover risk taking
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That, that's those are the big themes in terms of
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my childhood because seeing this incredible woman that I lost
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2.5 years ago, go at it over and over again,
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ask and not hesitate to ask,
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taught me at a very young age that it's important to understand
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yourself worth and to go for it.
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her favorite phrase was no yo tt.
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So whenever I would talk to her about,
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I'm thinking about doing XY or Z,
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she'd say no, Yello Tiene,
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go for it, lean in and do it.
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Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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And so practicing that over and over again,
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hearing the rejection, but not using it as a deterrence to
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go back at it and try it again until you get to
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the right outcome or a different outcome.
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Because sometimes these paths take you in a winding road to a
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better outcome. And so all of those experiences shaped me.
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And then when I was in high school,
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That's incredible to start with.
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And so you met your father when you were in high school
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and you were already No,
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Yello Tiene. So I'm going to go for the Yes,
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yes. And then what happened?
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And so then what happened is my father showed up at high
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school. I was in cheerleading practice.
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The principal came running over and said,
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Musa, your, your father is here to see you.
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And so that was the moment that I walked out and
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I saw my father for the first time because when I left
04:51
very young. And so we started a relationship he had again
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I mean, over a decade in prison finally gets out
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finally starts over in a new country,
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starts his business. He was an entrepreneur at heart.
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And so we started this new relationship.
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weeks, months, years getting to know him.
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And so at a very very early in that process,
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he was very interested in our education.
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Both of my parents were avid learners,
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self taught. And he started asking a lot of questions
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about college and where was I going to study and I was
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thinking about being a dancer at the time I had been dancing
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for, for many years.
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I was very creative and they have the body of a dancer
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Let's just say that yes.
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And so he he convinced me,
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he said, why don't you study business,
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finance and minor in dance?
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And he leaned in and leaned in.
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And finally, I had a knack for numbers.
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I loved it. And then I was observing him,
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you know, starting a business from the ground up.
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And we would sit and talk about his business.
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It was a construction business,
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but I learned a great deal just hearing the stories.
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and observing him in action,
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I always say, you know,
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having role models that we can see in action.
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I saw my mother in action,
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I saw my father in action and then the conversations really influenced
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me. And so I decided to pursue a degree in finance
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at the University of Miami.
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And then from there,
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he said, keep it going,
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go get your masters,
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don't don't deviate,
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don't pause, just go for it.
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And so he was incredibly supportive and helpful.
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And so I then obtained my master's in business Administration with a
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concentration finance at Florida International University.
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And so when I finished my studies,
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I had been working full time,
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I worked full time while I was going to school.
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And so I was working in real estate sales.
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And that's, you know,
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everything I learned from my mom about sales because my mother was
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a salesperson at heart really,
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And so I started to build a clientele in real estate.
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But then, my husband was in the arts.
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And so we ended up going to Russia for a little
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bit. His last semester was in Russia.
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And on the way back,
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we decided to stay in New York for a little bit.
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What I thought would be a year.
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It ended being 14 years.
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And so that's when I entered the world of finance.
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That's, that was sort of the chapter on Wall Street.
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So when I arrived in New York,
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I didn't have a network.
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I didn't have a rolodex.
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I had a resume that showed experience in real estate,
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an advanced degree and a job in Moscow at a gym teaching
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aerobics because I was a fitness instructor at the time.
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And so that was again reset,
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restart. But I managed to find a recruiter that put
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me in contact with the head of the business at Bank Boston
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And that's how I landed my first role in private
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banking. And I am like when we started talking about starting
07:40
the podcast, I always dreamed about having a conversation like this
07:44
because I thought how many young Latinas are coming to the US
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without part of their family?
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Like, can they like are,
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are our guests gonna be able to share stories of their lives
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that really connect. And I'm,
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I'm so appreciative that you are sharing this because I'm sure that
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a lot of the listeners will,
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will feel like if they,
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they can be you and you sharing this is,
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I think it's going to make them feel like anything is possible
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So I appreciate that it's important to share these stories and
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you're creating the platform for us to do that because you're right
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you can't be what you can't see.
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But sometimes people assume when they see you in certain roles doing
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certain things further along in your career,
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that that's where you started.
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That's what about you?
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I was like, she probably has this fabulous parents that grew
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up in Miami and a DC life.
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I, I borrowed a suit for my first interview.
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I, I just took the tool set that I knew I
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had, which was confidence,
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work ethic and the ability to push through.
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And that's what I sold.
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And so that door open,
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I landed my first job.
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I learned the business and that got me on my way.
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And then those 14 years that I was in New York,
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I worked for the major firms,
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the major banks leading up to my current role at Morgan Stanley
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But it was through a series of things that I knew
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I wanted to do to be able to get to the
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next level. And the we we've heard from,
09:22
from others that you have the superpower of influencing and negotiating.
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Can you talk to us about like,
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how does that superpower come to life?
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And the more you can give us tips,
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like to do action items for our playbook,
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the better for our audience?
09:39
Sure. So I would say both of those are skills
09:43
you hone you develop,
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they're not innate skills that you're naturally born with.
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And so there's a couple of things,
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first of all, it's your track record matters.
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So before you, you start to influence or think about how
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you're gonna change, which are really the roles that I assumed
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over time where I was,
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I became a change agent.
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I became a disruptor.
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You come in, you have a vision and you're trying to
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get others to see that vision and you're driving change.
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But before you do that,
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you have to make your mark,
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you have to build your brand.
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And so I made it a point earlier in my career to
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build a track record,
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even though I had aspirations,
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even though I shared with my bosses,
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all the many things I wanted to do.
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I delivered results. And so I tell Latinas and women
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and employees overall, you need to make your mark.
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And so you need to deliver results and build a track record
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first and foremost because that's what's gonna help you get noticed.
10:37
Ok. And so as you make your mark,
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that means that you're gonna use your work ethic.
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That's certainly what I did.
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I raised my hand a lot.
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That's the other thing I would say.
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a lot. Do we have anybody that's willing to do XY
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or Z without having all the answers without knowing that I was
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100% prepared. I would say yes.
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And then I would go and figure out how I was gonna
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make it work. And I,
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and sometimes we second guess ourselves and we,
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and we first talk about all the different reasons for why something
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may not work or why may me not be prepared?
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let me go think about it.
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I turn that on its head and say yes.
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And then I go away and I said,
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what did I just say?
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Let me figure out how this is all going to work and
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then I go back at it and I think that we have
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heard in the guest that we have here very similar somehow
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traits and experiences and also characteristics that are,
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very different to what we know.
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It's true for the Latina community,
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for Latinas in the community.
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you know, like AAA point in time as the ending,
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it's the beginning of the new phase.
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So you never really stop.
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You keep on going the ability to start all over to start
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like you move from Moscow to here and they were like,
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OK, let's do it again.
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The incredible example from your parents that care about education and
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like support you and give you at least the ethic that
12:08
you have. And number four,
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I think is that the true embracement of your Latina power
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as a way to make sure that you're like doing more and
12:19
and, and taking that hard work to say like,
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yes, I'll volunteer and so on because the reality is that
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most of Latinos, we have the impostor syndrome.
12:27
We don't apply to jobs unless we feel that we're 100% you
12:33
we fit 100% men apply when they're like 50% 60% Latinos are
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like under, under applying.
12:40
We have that imposter syndrome.
12:42
We are scared of actually,
12:44
you know, like failing our parents in the aspirations that they
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have. And therefore we don't take a lot of risks and
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we do have a lot of,
12:51
of results, we get results,
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but we then don't know how to advocate for ourselves and get
12:57
promotions. And so I want to ask you about your mantra
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so having heard of that and having,
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I hope that for our audience is clear that,
13:07
you know, like there are some constant that we're hearing in
13:10
this podcast of Trailblazer woman that you need to learn and you
13:15
need to take, what are,
13:17
how did you make it to go where you are?
13:19
What were pivotal moments where you were like,
13:21
I remember that, you know,
13:23
like between having this promotion and that promotion,
13:26
I had to do something and how did you manage actually to
13:30
telling us a little bit of the,
13:31
of the maneuvering and the pivotal moments that you had.
13:36
so that winding road is,
13:39
And so you need to embrace it.
13:42
I remember moments early on in my career.
13:45
First of all, let's just talk about Latinidad,
13:48
my language, my bilingual skills gave me an immense advantage on
13:53
Wall Street. When I got to the Second Bank that I
13:56
worked, everybody that competed for that role to lead a team
14:01
And it was my first time leading,
14:03
had 1015 years on me in terms of experience.
14:07
And yet I had the language.
14:09
And so again, when I went in to position myself,
14:12
I was thinking bigger.
14:13
I was sharing a vision.
14:14
I call it visionary leadership,
14:15
which is I'm not here to just do the task at hand
14:19
I'm painting a picture for what I can do for you
14:22
Longer term as a leader,
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as a Latina, I'm gonna use my language skills.
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I'm gonna help you build marketing content.
14:28
And so I'm positioning greater value beyond what the job description
14:34
shows. And so creating a vision,
14:37
whether you're having a conversation about the role,
14:39
whether you're talking with your manager,
14:41
whether you're talking with your partner in terms of what is the
14:48
And so being able to talk about that,
14:50
even if you have doubts about whether that's real or if it's
14:54
ever gonna materialize is very powerful,
14:57
I believe in the power of words,
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I believe in the power of thoughts and in the power of
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affirmation. And so reminding ourselves and putting those ideas out into
15:07
the universe and articulating it immediately gives you power because you are
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starting to say what will be.
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And when you say it enough times you actually start to believe
15:17
it and then it translates into your actions and that portrays in
15:22
the way you present in a meeting,
15:24
the way you negotiate and the way you carry yourself.
15:27
And so all of those practices,
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I didn't look, I talk a lot about when I started
15:35
my knees would buckle.
15:36
I would hyperventilate when I had to present.
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So I can't imagine that.
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Well, I, I say it a lot of times because
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many women come up to me and say,
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And I say it's a home skill.
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It's something that all of us can do,
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whether it's a negotiation,
15:52
being able to present,
15:53
articulating your vision or going for the bigger job,
15:57
the bigger opportunity. So some of the defining moments gladly that
16:03
you work on Wall Street,
16:04
you work for large firms,
16:06
there's a lot of mergers,
16:07
many a acquisitions.
16:09
And so the there's constant change,
16:12
your ability to navigate and embrace the change is critical.
16:18
So the big role that you finally obtained and you're leading a
16:22
large market all of a sudden comes to an end because there's
16:25
a restructuring and then you have a decision to make.
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Do you start to reflect on why me?
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Do you start to use that as an opportunity to learn from
16:35
it? And I call fail forward,
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how do you fail forward,
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which is take that experience,
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build more muscle and go back at it in a bigger way
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And so that's what I did the first time that happened
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to me about six years in,
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They offered me a lot of different roles and I said I'm
16:52
taking a break, I'm gonna,
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I'm gonna reflect and look at where I've been and where I
16:57
wanna go. I worked with an executive coach and I spanned
16:59
the marketplace and now I could work with recruiters.
17:04
I took the time to focus on me and I think that's
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the other thing we need to do.
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We need to focus on ourselves and we need to create margins
17:10
to do that. And the biggest asset for us is time
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because we don't have enough time because we work at work and
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we work outside of work and we take care of everyone and
17:22
we give of ourselves and we stretch ourselves and
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sometimes without time you can't develop yourself and we don't focus ourselves
17:30
So you've been talking and I've been,
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you know, since I got into the Hispanic market,
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I've heard your name and for me you're associated with,
17:41
supporting women and wealth.
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I mean, like I associate it with a couple of words
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and you know, like again and again,
17:47
I've heard your mantra of taking risks,
17:50
ask and using your influence.
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How is that influencing even your life today?
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Who taught you that?
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How would you have used that,
17:58
I don't know. So yeah,
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so the influence comes in again at a very young age,
18:05
in spite of everything that we had to go through,
18:08
right? at a very early age to just get by
18:12
there was a philosophy of abundance in my home,
18:16
talk about that a lot.
18:17
And so my mother was very giving.
18:20
And so she always made it a point to tell us
18:22
that there was always room to give to others,
18:25
there was always room to pay it forward.
18:27
I remember we used to sit in the dining room table once
18:30
a month to prepare care packages to send to her family,
18:34
to my grandmother, my aunt,
18:35
my cousins and it was,
18:37
it was a great time.
18:38
I have wonderful memories of that.
18:40
But if you think about doing that over 20 years,
18:43
every single month, you are maintaining your family in another country
18:48
and there's financial strain and there's stress and yet there's these happy
18:52
moments about being able to give to others.
18:57
glass half full, I always say when you get to travel
19:01
when you get these experiences and you get to give back
19:03
to others that, that,
19:06
it keeps you grounded.
19:08
And so I've always been very grounded in the world that I
19:10
get to operate because of these experiences.
19:12
And so those experiences is what's allowed me to say I can
19:17
drive, I can use my power for good.
19:20
And I want to use the talent to create broader impact in
19:24
the community where I live and the women that are coming behind
19:27
me that could get the shortcuts so they can do it in
19:31
half the time. I always say my,
19:33
what do you want your legacy to be?
19:35
I want the next generation to do it in half the time
19:40
that's what it is and,
19:41
and in everything that we do,
19:43
there's an opportunity to give back,
19:44
to pay it forward and to have a broader impact.
19:47
And that's the way II I see the world when I operate
19:50
and I, and it's a privilege.
19:51
It's a privilege to be able to do it.
19:55
I work for Morgan Stanley.
19:56
It's an incredible organization.
19:57
It's given me the platform to do what I do in terms
20:01
of leading the business that I lead day to day.
20:03
And then also lend my talent to driving the Hispanic Latino
20:07
strategy to connect strategically in the marketplace,
20:11
to be able to do more and collaborate.
20:14
Because when you create scale,
20:17
I'm so inspired already.
20:19
It's incredible. This is,
20:20
this is pretty much I think that there's,
20:23
there's always something that triggers in a way our desire to
20:29
help others, isn't it to giving back?
20:31
And now listening to your mother having an abundance mentality,
20:34
when we as a community were grounded in a scarcity mentality because
20:40
we have been taught that there's only so few opportunities and that
20:44
you have to grab them.
20:45
I'm really excited to learn more about like those triggers.
20:49
Now let's talk about wealth and why do you think wealth is
20:53
such an important element?
20:54
How are you going for financial inclusion?
20:57
How does that lead to equity and how are you using your
20:59
power for, you know,
21:01
like within Morgan Stanley and everywhere that you thought,
21:04
you know, like I've met so many people that pretty much
21:06
so you work for Ileana Musa?
21:08
No, no, I work in a different bank.
21:11
your footprint everywhere. Yes,
21:14
it gets to it gets to influence,
21:16
but it starts with the conversation,
21:18
which is as Latinas and women,
21:20
we need to have these conversations about wealth.
21:22
And traditionally, we shy away from it because we shy away
21:25
from things we're not comfortable with.
21:27
And so you're saying money is not comfortable,
21:29
it's not comfortable. You know,
21:30
when we think about negotiating,
21:33
one of the big elements there is what is your relationship
21:37
with money? Because as Latinos,
21:40
we didn't grow up and certainly in my household,
21:42
talking about money at the dinner table,
21:44
we didn't talk about wealth.
21:45
It wasn't a topic that was embraced.
21:48
We were talking about other things and when I,
21:51
when I speak to other Latinas,
21:52
I think it's, there's very strong cultural norms that don't always
21:56
serve us well, there's incredible values that give us strength and
22:02
then we have to be aware of those blind spots.
22:04
And I think this is one of those blind spots,
22:06
which is we need to reflect and say,
22:09
what is my financial philosophy?
22:11
Because that financial philosophy will impact.
22:14
Do we believe that we have a choice to negotiate?
22:18
Because more often than not?
22:20
I remember when I got my first job in New York City
22:23
I was, I was doing that the,
22:26
the Fred Astaire down Park Avenue because I was so excited that
22:30
I had steady income.
22:32
Right? And I had a good salary.
22:34
What I thought was a great salary.
22:35
It was a good salary.
22:37
Never, it occurred to me to negotiate that first job in
22:41
New York City. And so sometimes we're so grateful,
22:44
there's a lot of gratitude and because we work so hard that
22:48
it's a blind spot for us to not lean in and go
22:52
first thing I would say,
22:53
it's a choice. Negotiating is a choice and we need to
22:57
make that choice. And so I've become very self aware over
23:00
the decades that you need to do it when it doesn't matter
23:05
so that you're prepared when it does.
23:08
And that means you're negotiating at home for time and the way
23:12
you share the housework,
23:14
the family because sometimes it's a sandwich generation and we are compressed
23:18
to do more for many more people than just the nuclear family
23:22
All of that impacts the way we think about finances.
23:25
And so the first thing is to reflect on what's our relationship
23:28
And then number two,
23:30
are we on a path to become financially independent?
23:33
Financial independence is different to financial stability?
23:37
I see those as how do you define financial independence,
23:41
financial independence? I define as being able to create a
23:45
path for yourself where you are building wealth,
23:49
not just for the near term,
23:53
for the next generation and to have a financial legacy.
23:57
So, I want to give some very specific advice to
24:02
our audience because you just said something that I didn't understand just
24:05
like you that you could negotiate and now that I'm on the
24:08
side of giving people offers,
24:11
I actually always have a little bit of wiggle room.
24:14
when you put a job out there,
24:17
a job that description and people apply,
24:18
correct me. If I'm wrong,
24:21
but you always have a little bit of wiggle room in that
24:23
budget. So if somebody,
24:25
if you really want a candidate and you're going to give them
24:27
the offer, you expect them to negotiate if they don't negotiate
24:30
Great, you keep the,
24:32
the rest of the money.
24:34
But anyone listening to us,
24:36
if you guys get an offer,
24:38
there's nothing bad about negotiating that first offer.
24:41
Assume that there's a little bit of wiggle room,
24:43
there's ways to do it respectfully,
24:46
that's not going to mean that they're going to take the offer
24:49
away because I think that's the fear,
24:50
right? Like what if I negotiate,
24:52
they're going to take the offer away?
24:53
They're not going to take it away and you may end up
24:56
with a little bit more money than you expected.
24:59
there's ranges and then when you think about what you're negotiating for
25:02
there's other things,
25:03
right? It's not just compensation,
25:05
right? There's time,
25:06
there's benefits, there's flex schedules that we're seeing now.
25:09
So it's thinking about all of it.
25:11
It's doing the research,
25:12
investing the time and being prepared.
25:15
You need to go in being prepared and knowing what you want
25:20
and setting those parameters because I always say,
25:24
knowing what you're going in for is gonna anchor the way you
25:27
think, the way you react,
25:29
the way you respond.
25:30
So the way you prepare really matters now,
25:33
that also translates to those same skills,
25:38
help you to influence,
25:39
to drive change, to accomplish the goals,
25:42
to secure resources. And so when I think about influence in
25:46
in essence, it's how do you instill followership?
25:49
How do you get others to see your vision and to want
25:52
to get behind what you're doing?
25:54
Some people would say,
25:55
well, I use my position,
25:59
I would say those are short lived.
26:01
They're not sustainable. It takes a lot more work.
26:03
You have to burn more calories.
26:06
if you invest the time to get somebody there on their own
26:09
because you are thinking about their goals and what they care about
26:13
then when they jump on board and they're in it with
26:16
you, they're going to stay the course.
26:17
And that's the a goal in terms of being able to influence
26:21
because you're driving change.
26:23
And so early in my career,
26:24
I would go in with the big idea.
26:26
Here's the idea. Here's a presentation.
26:28
I that doesn't work.
26:30
What I, what I tell women and Latinas is first build
26:33
the relationship, understand what's important to that individual and then you
26:39
land it because once you make that connection,
26:42
chances are they're gonna be much more willing to get on board
26:47
with you and to listen to that big idea.
26:49
So it's just the sequencing in the order in which you do
26:52
things that matters. And I think that also,
26:54
I, I think that for this generation of Latinos,
26:57
we're not used to taking risk when it comes to our salaries
26:59
and when it comes to our own wealth,
27:01
that we're very cautious because we have not had,
27:05
you know, like the family and friends capital that comes
27:09
to us in the wealth and inheritance.
27:11
So we have to actually start generating wealth.
27:14
And a number of times one is because you were saying it's
27:16
taboo and we don't discuss it as much.
27:18
But secondly, I think that we're not,
27:20
we're not trained to take risks when it comes to our
27:24
own wealth building. And if you don't take risks,
27:27
if you're risk averse,
27:28
it's gonna take longer,
27:29
which is fine. It is gonna be fine.
27:32
But I think that given the size of the community,
27:34
we should, you know,
27:35
like be able to totally start looking at risks with more education
27:41
so that we can take them in your own life.
27:42
You're saying you just ask and use your influence and cover yourself
27:47
Absolutely. And you need to have that plan of how
27:50
you're going to go about doing it.
27:51
And that again, my father taught me that early on.
27:54
He was an investor and,
27:56
and I was a saver early on when I started working and
27:59
he's like, that's not good enough.
28:00
You have to invest and he pushed me,
28:02
you know, the retirement account and maxing out the retirement contribution
28:06
and these small steps.
28:07
And he said, you know,
28:08
he said, if you automatically move the money every month,
28:11
you're not gonna notice it's not there.
28:13
You have to just build the discipline and it's about consistency,
28:19
you know a lot of money at the end of the year
28:20
you wanna just do the drip constant stay the course for
28:25
And that this is what I say right to your point.
28:28
You could start, you can earn the income.
28:30
Then the question is you're gonna save,
28:31
are you gonna invest,
28:32
what are the other steps you're gonna take as Latinos?
28:35
You know, the research shows we save,
28:37
we don't invest right.
28:39
Homeownership is big for us.
28:41
It's the largest asset many of us will own,
28:44
but it's, you've got to pull on all of those levers
28:47
I mean, we're in America like I think maybe in
28:49
some of our countries investing in the stock market or having different
28:53
like a more diversified approach to generating wealth wasn't a thing
28:59
we have the possibility.
29:01
So yes. And if you think about many of the countries
29:09
you don't have a lot of stability in the financial system
29:11
So it is definitely very powerful here and very different
29:16
and we can take advantage of that.
29:17
I certainly did. So now we want to talk about the
29:20
research that you shared with us from the Center for Talent Innovation
29:24
You spoke about the results that say that women want five
29:29
things they want to flourish,
29:31
to excel, to have meaning and purpose,
29:33
to empower others while being empowered and to earn well.
29:37
And when you think about these five things,
29:38
it's almost like the only way to achieve them is if you
29:41
are in a position of power,
29:43
like if you don't get to a position of power,
29:45
you can achieve some of these.
29:47
But the five only come if you get to a position of
29:50
power. So how can we get more Latinas into a position
29:53
of power? That was the aha moment of the study.
29:58
It definitely was for me and that the study is over
30:02
five years old, but it's still in my mind very,
30:04
very relevant. So a couple of things that came out,
30:07
number one, the women want the same thing as the men
30:10
So that was surprising of the study because they thought that
30:13
potentially those dimensions that were going to be important to women were
30:16
going to be different to the men.
30:17
They were not. Number two,
30:19
the perception by many women who answered the survey that by going
30:24
for positions of power,
30:25
you obviously you, you actually have less choice and less optionality
30:30
in terms of doing the things you like and want.
30:33
And it's the opposite.
30:34
So what the study calls out is by going for those positions
30:38
of power, not throwing in the towel,
30:40
staying the course, you're able to achieve those things that matter
30:44
most to you. And in turn,
30:46
you end up having more flexibility for the things that matter to
30:50
you. And so it's the opposite of what I think most
30:54
assumed reading the study certainly was for me.
30:58
And it's, it's universal,
30:59
I would say these are universal aspirations that sometimes we assume based
31:05
on gender, we want different things,
31:09
we want a lot of the same things.
31:11
Yeah. Absolutely. And I do think that it's a myth
31:13
and it's a myth that we have to and that we have
31:16
to actually make sure that,
31:17
you know, like the way that you're talking,
31:20
that money is not an issue for Latinos and it's like non
31:23
elegant to be able to talk about money.
31:26
you know, like the same with power and the same
31:29
with positions of power where we think that it is easier to
31:34
be more balanced in your life if you're like lower in the
31:37
ranks and you're higher in the ranks.
31:39
And that I think it's a myth.
31:40
II, I don't mean to,
31:42
I don't mean to oversimplify,
31:44
but I do think that it is,
31:46
it is something that we should be discussing more.
31:48
How do we embrace our power?
31:50
How do we claim power?
31:51
What does power mean?
31:52
How do we get there and how are we going to start
31:55
looking at it in a different connotation than negative necessarily only?
32:00
And how are we going to start positioning more and more of
32:03
all of us? And that's why I think that when I
32:06
look at you and I think that you've been trying to coin
32:10
Latinas and will like associate those two words,
32:13
Latinas with wealth is because we're not today.
32:16
And I would love to see more of that success where we
32:19
can start looking at the like,
32:20
how do we make the country realize that Latinas can be wealthy
32:24
and are wealthy and are on the way to be wealthy and
32:27
the same with power.
32:28
Right? Absolutely. And we are,
32:31
I mean, if you look at the sheer numbers,
32:33
60 million Latinos, over 50% are female,
32:37
the youngest cohort in the US in terms of numbers where they
32:41
are, right? So now the question is,
32:44
how do we put ourselves on this path to be able to
32:48
unleash that power? It's like a trapped resource and we have
32:52
to unleash it to maximize the benefit.
32:55
And it also starts with girls,
32:58
we've been talking, you joked about being a mom and,
33:00
and that's always a dilemma for us and we have to get
33:03
comfortable with trade offs.
33:05
OK? Some days you know Bella is gonna get more of
33:09
me some days work is gonna get more of me.
33:12
I talk a lot with my daughter about what it is to
33:15
be,, an executive in,
33:19
I talked to her half the things she doesn't understand,
33:21
but I still talk to her.
33:24
She has her cookie business.
33:25
I'm teaching her how to sell,
33:26
how to manage money.
33:27
I talked to her a lot about savings investing all of these
33:30
concepts. She just turned 11,
33:32
probably 30% is sinking in.
33:35
But over time, 100% will.
33:37
But II, I firmly believe we need to start earlier in
33:41
the process. So that that next generation is best equipped has
33:48
the tool set to be able to lean in and do
33:52
more sooner. So that is half the time at the time
33:55
So that is half the time.
33:56
So before going into,
33:57
I would love to go into the Latina part like the
34:00
into the identity into the identity piece.
34:02
But I just feel compelled to tell you a personal story so
34:06
that I, I hope that we as mothers can talk to
34:12
our Children and can actually feel that sense of freedom in a
34:17
way to be able to recognize that we do what we can
34:23
with the tools that we want,
34:25
that we have in the moment where we are.
34:27
And it's impossible for us to be able to like be free
34:31
of guilt of, you know,
34:33
like working and mothers and so on.
34:34
But I hope that you know,
34:37
like by the time that everybody listens to the podcast,
34:40
they can go to their Children and go like money,
34:42
money, money, money,
34:42
money, power, power,
34:43
power, power, pride,
34:44
pride, pride, pride,
34:45
Latina, Latina, Latina.
34:46
And so that we can actually embrace it all.
34:47
So my daughter was six,
34:50
was turning six years old now.
34:52
She's 18. And so she,
34:54
I used to work for the UN refugee agency and,
34:59
hey Tamara, Tamara Ta Mara,
35:01
so much. What would you like to have for your birthday
35:05
ah, I would like to be a refugee and I'm like
35:07
hi mommy. Why do you say those things?
35:09
Why would you like to be a refugee?
35:11
I'd like to have you for a full week and it broke
35:17
But because I used to travel,
35:19
I mean, like my specialty was war and disaster zone.
35:22
So even to get to the places where I was working,
35:26
So I was gone for 20 days in a row.
35:30
oh my God. And every time I came back from Darfur
35:33
or from Somalia, I used to tell so many stories is
35:36
about these incredible people that were the refugees that were looking for
35:39
asylum that were looking you know,
35:40
with dignity that didn't have anything.
35:42
And nevertheless, they,
35:43
they went forward and starting again and so on and she had
35:47
like full admiration for them.
35:49
But she was also saying I want to be like them so
35:52
that you see me so that you spend time with me.
35:54
And so it really shook me and I started thinking,
35:58
like, should I quit?
36:01
And then I kept on going to Africa for 20 days.
36:03
And then when she was 15,
36:05
would you ever forgive me for having left you so long?
36:09
what do you mean left me?
36:11
oh, you don't remember?
36:13
Yeah. So at the end of the day,
36:15
we have to be able to be to,
36:17
to be able to do the things that we need to do
36:19
that we want to do and do it in a way that
36:23
you know, like it's is giving us permission to try
36:26
as hard as we think that our parents would be proud of
36:29
us understanding that our kids are going to be the result of
36:32
our example, the way that you are of your mom and
36:35
That's, that's, that's legacy right there.
36:39
You know, that's what,
36:40
that's where the next generation is left with,
36:43
which is those experiences,
36:45
those conversations, those memories that then carry you forward and allow
36:50
you to continue in those footsteps.
36:53
Get better because I always say the next generation,
36:56
you know, in these tables,
36:57
the next generation can have conversations about how much easier it was
37:06
just I want to say something about money because I work in
37:09
also a financial services company at Money Lion.
37:13
And then we talk a lot about the taboo of speaking about
37:17
money. And there's this phrase that we all use of money
37:21
can't buy happiness, right?
37:23
And the way we see it is it can't buy happiness.
37:26
But can you be happy if you are worried about money all
37:28
the time? And the reality of most Americans is that they
37:32
are worried about money,
37:33
even people making hundreds of thousands of dollars,
37:35
they are worried about money.
37:37
And I think the other data point is that women manage most
37:42
of the money, right?
37:43
The purchasing, it's not just the grocery bills that women manage
37:48
It's big purchasing decisions that are managed by money by women
37:51
And exactly. So we have to remove the taboo of
37:56
speaking about money. Why is it that it's so hard to
38:00
have a conversation about how much money I want to make.
38:03
How much money do you make?
38:08
I remember in my class in business school we made a pact
38:14
my girlfriends that we would tell each other how much each
38:17
one was making and we were going to help each other negotiate
38:21
when we would get an offer.
38:22
And that's what we do.
38:23
Now, if anybody gets an offer,
38:25
we talk to each other and we were like,
38:26
is this a good deal?
38:28
And people go in a database and we help each other negotiate
38:35
for jobs? There's no,
38:36
there's no envy. No,
38:38
there's really full transparency so we can raise the,
38:41
what is it? R the tithe?
38:43
So yeah, you can be,
38:44
I can add you to the whatsapp but it starts with the
38:49
conversation. It starts with the conversation because usually you're sitting around
38:54
these tables and I don't know,
38:55
we can talk about shoes or purses or you know,
38:58
when you start talking about real estate and you start talking about
39:02
net worth and you start talking about investment ideas.
39:05
I mean, this is what it's about and you don't need
39:07
to what I tell a lot of my friends that are not
39:10
in the business that I'm in,
39:11
you don't need to be an expert,
39:13
right? Because the goal around Latinas and wealth is everybody
39:18
it's like your driver's license.
39:20
Everybody needs to be equipped to do it.
39:23
You don't need to be in the industry.
39:25
You don't need to have a degree in finance,
39:26
to be able to do it and we have to get comfortable
39:29
and then we have to embrace it knowing that it starts
39:33
with a conversation. OK.
39:35
Now let's talk about Latinas and let's face it.
39:38
The reality is that we're talking with trailblazers,
39:41
but the being a Latina is a superpower.
39:45
We love it. We're focusing on it,
39:49
you know, like an obstacle to the careers of many.
39:51
It has been a point of rejection.
39:53
It has been, you know,
39:54
like the perception of Latinas is absolutely stereotyped.
39:58
We're underrepresented, we're underpaid,
40:00
we're undervalued. How have you experienced your Latini that have you
40:06
like, talk more about like your,
40:08
like your, your identity as a Latina in your career?
40:13
because of that, despite of that,
40:14
where were the moments you were talking before about like how to
40:18
think about it? Almost like as a suitcase that you had
40:20
to, you were succeeding being Latina before it was cool to
40:24
be Latina in finance in New York 20 years ago.
40:30
my childhood memories were we were all in being Latinos at
40:36
some families got to the US and their goal was to assimilate
40:44
It was all about embracing your Latinidad.
40:46
And I remember in Miami,
40:47
we used to drive after school,
40:49
my mother when she used to pick us up,
40:51
there were some signs that would say English only and she would
40:54
get very upset and she would say Spanish only and we'd get
40:57
home and it was Spanish only from the moment you walked in
41:00
And it was like that throughout my entire and she,
41:03
it didn't matter who said what we were true to our culture
41:07
loved, the language spoke the language and embraced everything about
41:11
our Latinidad. So when I got to New York,
41:14
I'm not thinking it's not gonna be welcome,
41:18
you know, but then I started to,
41:20
to learn that we needed to that I needed to adopt
41:26
I would say anybody that wasn't on Wall Street,
41:28
not just Latinas have to learn how to adapt.
41:30
When you come into a new environment,
41:32
you need to learn how to adapt.
41:33
And so the question is,
41:34
how do you leverage that superpower?
41:36
We're natural collaborators. I would say one of the things that
41:39
have given me has given me one of my biggest advantages
41:42
is the ability to bring others to the table.
41:45
I think horizontally all the time.
41:47
So that helps, you know,
41:49
when you work in a matrix organization in a large corporation to
41:53
be able to say we're doing on this.
41:55
But shouldn't we bring in somebody from technology?
41:57
And shouldn't we bring in somebody from this and I met this
41:59
person? And so your ability to collaborate and build relationships helps
42:02
you in bringing others to that table.
42:04
And when you bring others to that table,
42:06
you can think bigger,
42:07
you can get others on board with that big idea,
42:10
your vision and you get less resistance because you're,
42:15
you're engaging people early on and early adoption is what it's about
42:20
when you have a big idea or an idea that's gonna disrupt
42:25
you need people that are going to see it,
42:26
who are gonna want to rally with you and be your ambassadors
42:29
And so being able to bring others to the table and
42:32
we're natural collaborators, we enjoy working in groups.
42:35
And so that's one thing that really helped me.
42:38
Number two communications, I had a manager that came up
42:42
to me one time and said,
42:43
you need to be more succinct.
42:45
You're giving me every last detail of every idea that you have
42:50
and you're losing people.
42:51
I'm forever grateful to her.
42:52
She didn't sugar coat it.
42:54
She i it was a blind spot for me.
42:56
Well, I went off and I started to hone that skill
43:00
What are the headlines?
43:01
Start with the big idea and then get into more detail because
43:05
we, I remember when my daughter,
43:06
my daughter was delayed in speaking,
43:08
I remember when I went to her pediatrician,
43:10
she said your problem is you and your husband just talk and
43:14
talk and talk and you need to just focus on the one
43:16
word, focus on the one word,
43:18
let her master it and then go back and have the conversation
43:22
And so that's what I've learned in,
43:24
in my roles as well.
43:26
Start with the big ideas.
43:27
Give the outline no more than 2 to 3 things and then
43:32
get into the color and you start to give a little bit
43:35
more into each of those three big ideas.
43:37
And so it was the opposite of what I was doing.
43:39
I was giving a lot of detail and then my conclusion was
43:42
a big idea. You gotta turn that around.
43:45
There's a professor in H BS Francis Fry.
43:47
I don't know if you've read her books,
43:50
her main book is called Unleash.
43:52
And she draws on a triangle and she says we usually have
43:57
like the triangle facing down.
43:59
So they start with all the information,
44:00
all the information, all the information and then give you the
44:03
take away. It's like we have to flip the triangle because
44:06
you lose everyone and it makes you look like you have no
44:09
idea like people leave and they're like,
44:11
I don't know what I was saying.
44:13
Like, and when you transition from being an individual contributor to
44:18
leading others to influencing many,
44:21
there's a big difference here.
44:22
There's a big shift from,
44:23
I'm gonna do what I need to do day to day to
44:26
I'm gonna lead others because I now have a team to
44:29
I'm gonna manage few,
44:30
but I'm gonna influence thousands.
44:33
That's hard work. So the,
44:35
the way you approach the,
44:37
the way you communicate and the way you engage others around those
44:41
ideas really matters on whether you're going to get that followership,
44:44
whether you're gonna get others to see that big idea and want
44:47
to come with you on that journey.
44:49
So you have to hone those skills and,
44:52
and it's not one size fits all.
44:53
You have to know your audience.
44:55
Are you selling something?
44:56
Are you informing or are you trying to influence to get buy
44:59
in? So you have to understand who's your audience?
45:02
What is the objective?
45:04
I would say the pre game is so important.
45:07
What is my goal going into this meeting?
45:09
To inform, to connect,
45:11
to build a relationship or to get to the desired outcome,
45:13
which is getting this person to agree that they are going to
45:16
support me with this idea when we go into the boardroom and
45:19
how do you do it now?
45:21
Because people always talk about the meeting before the meeting and the
45:24
meeting after the meeting,
45:25
which is where the actual conversation and the decisions happen,
45:29
right? How are you doing that now in this decentralized world
45:32
where there's little water cooler chat?
45:36
Yes. Well, and even,
45:37
you know, right during COVID,
45:39
we're all on Zoom meeting.
45:40
So, but now we're back in the office like we
45:44
And so here's, here's the way I think about it.
45:47
Number one who's going to be around that table and do they
45:51
know what you're bringing?
45:52
So chances are they don't and the majority of the cases they
45:56
don't. And so then you think about who are the individuals
45:59
that can really help lean in with you in terms of having
46:02
a conversation of what the benefits of what you're going to present
46:05
and it's not, you know,
46:06
if there's 10 people in a,
46:07
in a meeting, there's maybe 2 to 3,
46:09
but I do talk to them at the time before the meeting
46:12
So then by the time you go to the meeting almost
46:14
already have the vote from those people before.
46:17
Ok. Well, you have the vote or you have the
46:19
concern and that's what you're trying to get at.
46:22
You're trying to understand how,
46:25
how do you see this?
46:26
Do you see it like I see it or do you see
46:28
it different in terms of what's important to you?
46:30
Are you aligned with me or you or you,
46:33
do you have concerns that I'm not seeing,
46:35
you're trying to unpack that ahead of conversation so that it's productive
46:40
And you mentioned a couple of you know,
46:42
like in a way just like going into the Latinidad and how
46:46
how, what we're trying to do with this podcast is
46:49
to try to give the playbook and the tools so that you
46:54
can be yourself your authentic self.
46:57
You don't have because 76% of Latinos have to hide their Latinidad
47:00
today. That's a large number of people that are pretending to
47:04
be someone, they are not so that they can manage to
47:07
survive, let alone lead,
47:09
let alone influence. Never,
47:11
right? Like, because if you're not yourself,
47:12
if you're acting as someone else,
47:14
there's no way you can influence or lead anybody.
47:20
you know, that suitcase analogy that you have about,
47:23
you know, like how to being,
47:25
like your true self and,
47:28
you know, like being your authentic self doesn't mean that you
47:31
like, like your suitcase analogy just,
47:33
yeah, it's not all or nothing.
47:35
So it's thinking about,
47:37
the path that you're on.
47:38
So let, let's continue with the same example,
47:41
if you're trying to get your idea,
47:43
your strategy to be adopted,
47:46
so you can start to execute so you can secure resources,
47:49
whatever it is that you're trying to achieve.
47:52
I give the suitcase analogy because whenever we take a trip
47:56
we pack a different suitcase and we're very comfortable doing it
47:59
I just went on a Disney cruise.
48:01
So I'm thinking I'm gonna be with Mickey and Minnie.
48:03
It's gonna be very casual.
48:05
Let me get my big ears,
48:09
right. So you're packing for that environment and you're not,
48:14
you don't even think twice about it.
48:18
It's still Illiana Musa,
48:19
but now it's Ileana Musa,
48:20
the traveler, not Ileana Musa,
48:22
the mom and it's not Ia Musa,
48:24
the the executive. Well,
48:26
it was a mom but because I went with my family,
48:28
but the point is you don't second guess yourself,
48:30
you just flex and adapt to that environment and you bring what's
48:34
gonna allow you to show yourself in the best way possible.
48:37
The essence is still the same,
48:39
but you're playing to win.
48:40
I always say we got to play to win.
48:42
So, when you're gonna enter the board room,
48:45
when you're gonna enter a corporate setting,
48:47
a board meeting again,
48:49
you're, you're asking yourself who's around that table and how do
48:53
And what do you pack?
48:54
And, but what I do like about this idea and we've
48:57
been talking all over and I love that you bring the field
49:00
flip the at the pyramid,
49:01
at the triangle. We talk all the time about flipping the
49:05
script because Latino, we've been,
49:06
you know, like acting in a script that is not ours
49:09
I don't know who that is,
49:13
so it was written for somebody else but we just play the
49:16
part. Yeah, but the,
49:17
the that we should have is what you describe.
49:19
I'm collaborative. I'm able to bring people,
49:23
I'm able to navigate through change.
49:26
Instead, the script that we're playing is she's too social or
49:30
she's too loud. And that really has to be understood as
49:34
collaborative, not, not,
49:35
not too social or too nice is leading as a mother being
49:39
able to convene so that when you understand it is not too
49:42
social, which is the stereotype,
49:44
but it's collaborative, then you're able to pack it in your
49:47
suitcase. Yes, absolutely.
49:48
I think resilience is the other one.
49:51
You know, Latinos are incredibly resilient.
49:55
The stories we've been talking about here,
49:57
they shape us, they mold us when you have a setback
50:00
you can go back at it because it's something that you're
50:02
so comfortable with because you've experienced it your entire life.
50:06
And so you go through a crisis,
50:08
then you can navigate that because you know what tough feels like
50:12
you do the, the hard well.
50:14
And so that's an asset to a company because you need to
50:17
navigate different market cycles,
50:20
you need to be able to lean in and stay the course
50:23
Are there any other characteristics of being Latina that you feel
50:26
like we need to flip the script?
50:29
I'm asking because one of my favorite things that Claudia has taught
50:31
me is that it's not on Latinos to change the narrative,
50:35
it's not on Latinas to ask like we can't do it alone
50:38
like we can through the podcast and through all the things that
50:41
you do, we can educate and inspire Latinas.
50:46
But if the rest of the population doesn't also change,
50:49
it's gonna be, we're gonna be rowing against the current.
50:52
So we want the rest of the us,
50:54
the rest of corporate America to associate Latino employees with something that's
51:00
good for business. Are there anything that you can think of
51:03
that? any characteristics that you can think of that corporate
51:07
America sees as a negative characteristic that we should flip.
51:10
The script can be famil,
51:12
it can be having an accent anything that that comes to mind
51:16
So a couple of thoughts there,
51:19
the first is the our mindset,
51:22
we're entrepreneurs. I mean,
51:24
I, I saw it with both of my parents.
51:26
I think naturally, even if you work in a corporation,
51:28
you don't own your own business.
51:30
Having an entrepreneurial mindset really helps.
51:32
So, because then you are an innovator,
51:35
you're thinking outside the box,
51:37
you're challenging the status quo and that's where innovation happens because you're
51:40
able to bring other folks to the table and many of those
51:43
individuals are different to you because that's very powerful.
51:46
That's where the big ideas come in.
51:48
It's not people that think like us,
51:50
I would say we need to build networks that don't look like
51:54
us. We naturally collaborate.
51:57
Everybody does with people that think like us sound like us look
52:01
like us because in immediately there's a connection but it's when you
52:05
create a network with individuals that think differently that look differently that
52:10
grew up on Wall Street that went to an Ivy League school
52:13
These are all the people that I have wanted to connect
52:16
with because I learned from them because they've had a very different
52:19
upbringing because they bring something different to the table.
52:22
And because we all win when we go at it together.
52:25
So one of the things that we,
52:28
because we're natural collaborators,
52:31
And I, I think sometimes when I always say you shy
52:35
away from what you don't know.
52:36
And if someone's not comfortable working with a Latino because they never
52:40
have, you're gonna have a choice to make who's gonna lean
52:42
in first. I always lean in.
52:45
I always lean in and reach,
52:47
I call it the give and the G so I always wanna
52:49
give before I'm gonna expect anything in return.
52:52
And that's always worked really,
52:53
really well for me because again,
52:57
you're gonna find something in common.
52:59
And once you find something in common,
53:03
You're on your way because that person immediately is gonna have a
53:06
connection with you. And then they're going to be open to
53:08
hear the idea and you're going to collaborate.
53:10
And so I would say that's one area that could be
53:15
could be very helpful for us.
53:16
Love it. We're gonna go on a,
53:18
on a little like time machine to see Eliana at her
53:26
What can we give her as advice?
53:29
Like, what do you wish you knew?
53:32
So then the next generation does it in half the time.
53:34
OK. So the first thing is sr and the success,
53:42
we've spent so much time validating success as Latinas.
53:49
as an immigrant, you know,
53:50
you're trying to push so hard to allow your generation to do
53:56
take care of those you care.
53:57
Sometimes you don't pause to smell the flowers and it's important to
54:03
savor those moments and realize that while there's so much more to
54:08
do, we've accomplished a great deal and so we need
54:13
to reflect on that and use that to fuel us.
54:16
I would say we all need a reservoir,
54:18
right? Because there is some very difficult moments where you need
54:21
to pull yourself back up.
54:22
What are you going to tap into and sometimes reflecting on what
54:26
you've done and how far you've come and the winds you've had
54:29
really helps propel you to go back at it.
54:31
So don't lose sight of the good.
54:36
So look, this is coming to an end.
54:38
This has been a wonderful,
54:42
I'd like to know who do you think we should be,
54:45
you know, like looking at or interviewing to hear from?
54:48
How do they make it whether they have claimed their Latinidad before
54:54
And it's it's so important to,
54:58
to bring more of those voices to the table.
55:00
So congratulations to both of you because it's incredible what you're doing
55:04
and creating this, this platform,
55:06
the setting to give greater access because this is about access,
55:08
right? Amplify the voice of the women that are doing it
55:12
in a very transparent way because we need to also talk
55:16
about the struggles it,
55:18
right? So that people can,
55:20
can learn from it and continue to push themselves forward.
55:24
You know, you talked at the beginning about the most powerful
55:27
Latina list. I like that list.
55:30
It's the first list that's ever been created specifically focused on
55:34
high performing Latinas that have made their mark in the industry where
55:38
they work. And if you scan that roster,
55:41
you're on it. It's incredible the level of insights that
55:48
I always refer to that list in terms of,
55:53
I consider that a network of mine,
55:54
one of my networks in terms of different women at different stages
55:59
of their career, accomplishing very different milestones in their journeys
56:05
and amplifying those voices in this platform would be incredible.
56:10
And some of those are my colleagues at Morgan's family.
56:13
So I'm excited to also bring them to this table with both
56:16
of you looking forward.
56:19
Oh my God, this was amazing.
56:21
I got so many insights.
56:22
I think I'm gonna be listening to this podcast over and over
56:26
I Mua and this was a podcast.
